One Health: Healthy environment - healthy animals - healthy people

00:00:00: Untouched nature, idyllic scenery, wild animals leading their normal lives.

00:00:09: This has become rare.

00:00:12: Less and less nature is untouched.

00:00:16: We humans are encroaching further and further into the habitats of animals,

00:00:22: driving them away, hunting them, getting closer to them.

00:00:33: Climate change is doing the rest.

00:00:36: The habitats of animals are shrinking and they are forced to move closer to us.

00:00:42: Even in western industrialized nations such as Germany, which have long since been fully developed,

00:00:48: animals are so close to each other and we are so close to the animals that pathogens

00:00:54: can adapt to other hosts over a certain period of time, including us.

00:01:01: This is how zoonoses can develop.

00:01:04: Infectious diseases that can be transmitted from animals to humans or vice versa.

00:01:09: This can cause epidemics and, in the worst case, pandemics.

00:01:15: We will be unable to counteract these if we do not research the pathogens

00:01:19: that the animals around us carry at an early stage.

00:01:23: This is precisely why, in 2021, the HZI founded an external location,

00:01:30: the Helmholtz Institute for One Health, in collaboration with the University

00:01:36: and University Hospital of Greifswald and the Friedrich Löffler Institute,

00:01:41: the Federal Institute of Animal Health.

00:01:43: Professor Dr. Fabian Leendertz is the founding director

00:01:47: and heads the Ecology and Development Department of the Zoonoses Research Group.

00:01:53: In this episode, he talks about the One Health concept,

00:01:57: its importance in preparing us for future pandemics and his day-to-day work as a researcher.

00:02:03: We're talking remote with each other.

00:02:07: I'm sitting in Cologne and Fabian Leendertz is in Greifswald.

00:02:12: Hi, Fabian Leendertz. Nice that we can talk together about your research.

00:02:16: Good morning.

00:02:17: Fabian, you have founded the Helmholtz Institute for One Health

00:02:21: since its foundation in 2021.

00:02:23: What does one health actually mean and why does it need a completely new institute?

00:02:30: So the One Health concept says that you cannot look at human health in isolation.

00:02:36: It's obviously influenced by our surroundings.

00:02:39: So by the animals around us in their composition and so on,

00:02:43: but also the environment in the broader sense like biodiversity, including climate.

00:02:49: And so this is the basic concept.

00:02:51: And the idea for a new institute is to pull different expertise together,

00:02:58: to shed light on the interconnectedness of these factors.

00:03:02: And there's a certain amount of research we do ourselves here at the institute.

00:03:07: But a big part of our work is also to connect expertise,

00:03:10: which you need to understand better the mechanisms.

00:03:14: By the way, this is not the first time I speak to a researcher from the HIOH

00:03:18: in episode seven of our first season.

00:03:21: I talked with Professor Sebastian Calvignac Spencer

00:03:25: about how he is researching the evolution of viruses on the HIOH.

00:03:30: Very exciting. I recommend you all to listen to it.

00:03:34: But back to you, Fabian, how can I imagine your research work

00:03:38: and where do you study the interaction between humans, animals and pathogens?

00:03:45: So One Health, as I said, is always quite complex

00:03:49: because you need to look at different factors.

00:03:53: And when we had the chance with the new institute to come up with a concept

00:03:56: for the entire institute, we said, let's do one mega project

00:04:00: where all departments and general research groups and also our founding partners

00:04:04: here in Greifswald and HZI in Braunschweig and other colleagues can contribute to.

00:04:10: And those are things which we call One Health exploratories.

00:04:14: So those are very small regions like 10, 12 villages in a specific area

00:04:19: where we want to understand all factors, humans, animal, environment, including climate

00:04:24: over a long time. So that's like a weather station for One Health.

00:04:29: And we will do that in Ivory Coast where I'm working since 25 years.

00:04:32: So we know a lot about the ecology already, about wildlife and humans.

00:04:37: And we have good partners in the country.

00:04:39: And the second site in Africa will be in the Central African Republic

00:04:43: in Dzanga-Sangha protected areas where we're working also since 10 years

00:04:48: more on the wildlife side, but also a little bit on the human side.

00:04:51: And also there we have excellent partners and collaborators.

00:04:55: And then the other idea is to to have a copy of that as much as possible

00:05:01: in front of our own doorsteps here in Greifswald in the region.

00:05:06: And that was first a little bit of a headache for me because I never really worked

00:05:10: except for the lab in Germany.

00:05:13: And I wondered what are interesting topics and how much is comparable to the African setting.

00:05:18: But actually here it's a very interesting region.

00:05:20: We have lots of agriculture, but also lots of landscape change.

00:05:24: For example, the big initiative for rewetting the mires.

00:05:29: And this is for binding the CO2 and stopping the release and these kind of things.

00:05:34: But obviously that will influence as well the composition of different vectors

00:05:38: and reservoir species influence also health and pathogens for humans.

00:05:44: And this is something we will study together with the colleagues here.

00:05:48: So that's lots of opportunities here actually in the region.

00:05:53: And that's what we're building up at the moment.

00:05:55: So that's not running yet, but that's where we're working on.

00:05:58: How you can compare the data from African jungle, let's say,

00:06:07: and with data from the German cultural landscape.

00:06:11: Yeah, that was also something I was very worried about in the beginning.

00:06:15: But the more you dig into the different topics,

00:06:18: the more you realize that things are not so different in the end.

00:06:21: So for example, we have lots of hunting here in the region.

00:06:24: People are in contact with wildlife in Germany as well,

00:06:27: regulated and rules and people respect those rules.

00:06:31: But still there is this interface with pros and cons.

00:06:35: It's    nice to be in nature, but on the other hand,

00:06:37: there may be a risk of passage and transmission.

00:06:40: And that's also a big topic in the African settings

00:06:42: where the so-called bushmeat hunting is one of the main drivers for pathogen emergence.

00:06:47: And so we have these things, we have landscape change,

00:06:51: often in the negative way in the African setting like deforestation.

00:06:56: But as I mentioned already here, the mire question of re-wetting the lands,

00:07:01: but also constructing new types of forests,

00:07:07: more biodiverse forests for more resilience with all these problems the trees have.

00:07:13: So I think there is more and more we can compare.

00:07:17: When you're not in Germany, you're in Africa.

00:07:20: What regions of the world have you been to?

00:07:24: So I don't want to make a long list of countries where I set my foot in.

00:07:29: That would be rather boring.

00:07:31: Our philosophy is to always work as much as possible with the same partners

00:07:36: in the same region to generate longitudinal data,

00:07:39: but also to build trust with our partners,

00:07:42: with the local stakeholders all the way to the ministry.

00:07:45: So that's very important, but for certain topics where we need comparative aspects,

00:07:51: for example, great ape health, we are working in various countries,

00:07:54: like for that specific DFG-funded project,

00:07:57: we are working in Gabon, in DRC, in Central African Republic, in Republic of Congo,

00:08:04: in Ivory Coast, and actually we also started collaboration with Guinea-Bissau.

00:08:08: So that can be broader networks.

00:08:10: But as I said, very important for us is this long-term relationship with our African partners.

00:08:15: And then, which pathogens are you researching and which main topics are you investigating with your team?

00:08:23: I am, and we are here generally not interested in very specific pathogens.

00:08:28: We are interested in what's relevant.

00:08:30: And that, you know, we are starting like when you go to the doctor,

00:08:33: you don't want to know if you have a herpes virus,

00:08:36: you want to know what's your problem, you know,

00:08:38: and the doctor will have to tell you what's the problem.

00:08:40: And that's somehow where we start.

00:08:42: So when animals die or humans die or get sick,

00:08:46: then we ask what is causing this problem.

00:08:48: And then the next step is to ask where does it come from

00:08:52: and what happened when transmission happened and what went wrong and how.

00:08:56: And that's very central to our institute.

00:08:59: How can we prevent something like that to happen again in the future?

00:09:03: We will never have a zero risk, but we want to reduce the risks and the number of spillovers.

00:09:07: And that's very essential to not, you know, to not always run behind the problems,

00:09:13: but to really avoid that these things actually happen.

00:09:17: And at the HIOH, you are investigating various factors that favor the occurrence of zoonosis.

00:09:24: For example, the spread of pathogens to humans.

00:09:29: Yeah, these include globalization, habitat loss and climate change.

00:09:35: In your opinion, what has the greatest influence or is it even possible to consider them separately?

00:09:43: So as you say, it's not, I don't think we should consider these things separately

00:09:47: because obviously there are few cases where you can say the climate directly influences

00:09:52: health of a human like if the air is really dry, your lungs may be more susceptible to certain things.

00:09:58: But in most of the case, it's a climate influencing the habitat,

00:10:03: which animals live where, what is the biodiversity, the ecology in certain settings,

00:10:09: and that then influences, for example, disease risk.

00:10:12: So that's where I think climate is one important factor, but not the only factor.

00:10:17: And that's, you know, something important to keep in mind, I think.

00:10:22: But what climate related data do you collect in the model regions?

00:10:26: So for those one health exploratories, we are including climate beyond

00:10:33: these generally available climate data you get globally.

00:10:38: We want to measure and we are we started.

00:10:40: to measure specifically the climate in those sites.

00:10:43: Starting from the microclimate-- so we

00:10:45: have these little microclimate loggers,

00:10:47: there are many hundreds of those which

00:10:49: we distribute from inside the forest, into the fields,

00:10:52: into the houses, in the villages,

00:10:54: to understand the microclimate.

00:10:56: Because that's what's influencing a lot the small mammal

00:10:59: composition or artropod composition, like mosquitoes.

00:11:02: They don't care about the big climate up there.

00:11:04: They are living in their microclimate.

00:11:07: And then we also have weather stations,

00:11:09: which we are installed in the different habitat types.

00:11:12: And that's something we didn't do in isolation,

00:11:15: but we do that in the frame of an Africa climate network,

00:11:20: where various of those weather stations

00:11:22: are put up in different settings.

00:11:24: And so we contribute to this larger effort.

00:11:28: What influences of climate change

00:11:30: have you been able to identify or maybe just

00:11:34: felt during your research of the research,

00:11:40: and how does the climate influence

00:11:42: the spread of infectious diseases?

00:11:46: So where we want to-- now with those observatories,

00:11:50: which are, as I said, like a weather station for one health,

00:11:52: climate is essential.

00:11:53: And that's where we will have climate data, really,

00:11:56: all the way down to a microclimate.

00:11:58: But that's just started.

00:11:59: We are a new institute.

00:12:00: And this concept, we are just building up.

00:12:02: So I cannot talk much about this.

00:12:05: So on the scientific side, that has not been central,

00:12:10: but it will be.

00:12:12: But from my personal experience, working, for example,

00:12:15: in the Tai National Park, since they're now 25 years or more,

00:12:18: when I started in 2000, when you work in the forest,

00:12:23: the so-called dry season was not really dry.

00:12:25: It just rained a little bit less.

00:12:27: But it was always green, and the ground was always wet.

00:12:31: And if you go there now in the dry season

00:12:33: into a Tai National Park, you can

00:12:35: hear when you're walking through the forest,

00:12:37: because there are lots of dry leaves on the forest ground.

00:12:40: And you can see much further.

00:12:42: So that really has changed a lot from a rainforest

00:12:46: into a more seasonal forest.

00:12:47: And that will have important influence

00:12:50: on various vectors and reservoir species.

00:12:52: But we have not understood what it really means.

00:12:55: What do we need to prepare for in terms of infections

00:12:59: at that current rate of climate change?

00:13:02: Globally, there are people working

00:13:06: on the specific problems, which we observed already.

00:13:09: So globally, the climate change, and for example,

00:13:14: vector-borne disease, is a very, very important topic.

00:13:16: We know that some pathogens, for example, in the animal side,

00:13:21: livestock disease, like the blue-tongued disease,

00:13:23: has spread all the way through Germany here to the north,

00:13:27: because the vector survives the milder winters and so on.

00:13:31: So we do know that things are spreading a lot.

00:13:36: And important questions in here is also

00:13:39: the vector competence of certain--

00:13:40: of our local mosquitoes, for example,

00:13:42: would then be capable of taking up certain viruses

00:13:46: and propagating them and becoming a new reservoir.

00:13:50: And all these things are important to understand.

00:13:53: What's also very important is to monitor

00:13:55: where what are those shifts in terms of vectors

00:13:59: and pathogens in those vectors?

00:14:01: And do they make it to the human side?

00:14:03: So there are bigger initiatives.

00:14:06: And we are linking up to those bigger initiatives

00:14:10: to have those data as well, included, for example,

00:14:14: in the Bernhard  Nocht Institute.

00:14:15: They are great teams.

00:14:16: Or in here in the Friedrich Löffler  Institute,

00:14:18: founding partners of HIOH , also in Charité.

00:14:22: And there are different teams working on these issues.

00:14:25: And I think that's very important.

00:14:26: But we have to be honest about our expertise.

00:14:29: And at the moment, that's not where we are strong,

00:14:33: but we have strong partners.

00:14:34: And this is what's the beauty and challenge of one

00:14:37: else to work across disciplines.

00:14:39: So the connection is very important.

00:14:44: You're veterinarian.

00:14:46: And what has driven you to come to your actual research?

00:14:52: Yes, yes, I'm veterinarian by training.

00:14:54: But I studied veterinary medicine to become a scientist.

00:14:58: And I wanted to be close to the animals and the real problems.

00:15:01: And the creativity and curiosity you have in science

00:15:08: is what's been driving me and still driving me.

00:15:11: So that's very important.

00:15:13: And then I started working on the great ape health,

00:15:17: especially the chimpanzee health.

00:15:19: And there, I found certain pathogens

00:15:21: which are important for the great apes.

00:15:23: But the question was, obviously, does it

00:15:25: matter for people as well?

00:15:27: And so we started very soon to also work with communities

00:15:30: around and see if those pathogens are then

00:15:32: transmitted to people.

00:15:34: Actually, also vice versa, one of the big problems

00:15:36: we found in the chimpanzees was a respiratory disease.

00:15:39: And then we found it's actually human viruses transmitted

00:15:42: to the animals.

00:15:43: And that's something where you can do something

00:15:45: with hygiene measures and good health protocols

00:15:49: to reduce the risk of transmission.

00:15:51: So we very quickly went on the human side

00:15:53: from the animal side.

00:15:54: And then for many of the pathogens,

00:15:56: the question is still, what's the origin?

00:15:59: And that's where we then started working with bats and rodents

00:16:02: and at a certain point, also mosquitoes

00:16:04: to see what's the interface here.

00:16:08: And then, obviously, you start with influencing

00:16:11: the community of those, for example, small mammals.

00:16:15: And then you start working on habitat types and gradients

00:16:19: from human land use.

00:16:21: And so that's when you automatically do one health,

00:16:25: even before one health became a little bit of a fashion,

00:16:28: as it is now, because you just ask the question

00:16:31: and you want to do something to understand the problem

00:16:33: and then to reduce the likelihood of those spillover

00:16:36: events.

00:16:37: I can feel the vibe that you're really

00:16:40: into your work and your research.

00:16:43: But I think you need a kind of work-life balance.

00:16:47: What do you do when you're not working?

00:16:51: Well, the problem is that I like my work so much

00:16:53: that it's a part of my work-life balance to work.

00:16:58: In any case, I also obviously have a private life.

00:17:01: I have quite a big family.

00:17:04: And when we moved from Berlin, where

00:17:07: I worked for many years in the Robert Koch Institute,

00:17:11: here to the more rural areas, let's say,

00:17:15: we said, if we move here, let's really be in the countryside.

00:17:19: And so we're living outside Grteifswald, somewhere.

00:17:25: And there, I like to work with animals and nature.

00:17:30: And we have a big garden.

00:17:31: And I think that's really what relaxes me a lot.

00:17:34: And it's known.

00:17:35: And actually, it's scientifically proven

00:17:37: that spending a few minutes even just in nature

00:17:40: and in the forest is helping you for your psychology,

00:17:43: for your resilience, and these kind of factors.

00:17:46: But I'm doing it just because I feel I need to do it.

00:17:50: Finally, and last question, what can we as a society or each

00:17:55: and every one of us do to minimize the risk of disease

00:17:59: outbreaks, also in connection with climate change?

00:18:02: And what would you like to see from politicians?

00:18:06: Well, if you think about the One Health concept,

00:18:09: it's a concept you can use for science.

00:18:11: That's what we do to get better in prevention.

00:18:14: But you can also use it sort of privately.

00:18:16: You can decide yourself how, if you

00:18:18: are lucky to have a garden or even a balcony,

00:18:21: how biodiverse you create this landscape.

00:18:26: And that, obviously, is good for you and your health

00:18:30: psychologically, but it also, biodiverse,

00:18:33: we know buffers, the occurrence of certain pathogens.

00:18:37: So that's sort of the very local level, the personal level.

00:18:40: Then you can do it on a regional scale,

00:18:42: like here in the Greifswal region in Mecklenburg-Pormarenia.

00:18:45: We have quite a big initiative to try to convince people

00:18:48: to also be closer to nature and consider other factors

00:18:52: in their daily life.

00:18:54: Or like the local politicians here,

00:18:56: very interested in the concept.

00:18:57: And they participate in our workshops and so on.

00:19:00: So you can do something on that scale.

00:19:02: Then we have the national scale.

00:19:04: And I have to say that I'm quite happy

00:19:06: that the different ministries are working more and more

00:19:09: together as far as I hear.

00:19:12: But also they decided that we will have a One Health

00:19:15: Platform here in Germany, which is a national platform

00:19:17: for the research community to get to know each other better,

00:19:21: to design programs together.

00:19:22: There are some seed funds to build those links.

00:19:26: And all these kinds of things are obviously

00:19:28: very important signals.

00:19:30: And then you can go on the global level.

00:19:32: And there are also big initiatives

00:19:33: that like WHO works more closely together

00:19:37: with the other players from environment

00:19:39: like United Nations Environmental Program

00:19:42: or this WOAH  World Organization for Animal Health or FAO.

00:19:47: And they created actually like a committee, which

00:19:51: is a One Health high level expert panel,

00:19:54: where people from those different disciplines sit together.

00:19:56: They define what is One Health and they're

00:19:59: working on more things to guide the community

00:20:02: in the right direction.

00:20:03: So One Health in all policies is something

00:20:07: which I didn't invent.

00:20:08: But I think if we take that serious,

00:20:11: we know that you cannot solve the problems alone.

00:20:13: Often there are interfaces.

00:20:15: And together you can be stronger and more efficient.

00:20:17: And I hope that people are starting

00:20:19: to recognize that obviously in times of wars and huge problems.

00:20:24: And these things tend to drown a little bit.

00:20:26: But I still think strongly that's

00:20:28: what we need because peace and justice is also

00:20:30: one part of the sustainable development goals.

00:20:33: If you look at those, you have health and peace and justice

00:20:36: and everything together.

00:20:38: So I recommend look at those goals

00:20:40: and learn them by heart and try to implement a little bit of that.

00:20:43: Wow.

00:20:44: Thank you very much for the exciting insights

00:20:46: into your research, Fabian.

00:20:48: Pleasure.

00:20:49: Fabian Leendertz connects research at the HIOH in Greifswald

00:20:53: on how globalization, habitat loss, and climate change

00:20:57: promote zoonosis.

00:20:58: And I really recommend you to listen to the episodes

00:21:01: with Dr. Berrit Lange about pandemic resilience

00:21:04: and Dr. Julia Port about transmission immunology.